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Bypass Disk Startup


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#21 Sariaz

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 12:53 PM

View PostSpongy141, on 17 April 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

^
So please explain how a computer startup with that code will even run if a disk have a startup file?

If its already running then the code then when the disk is inserted the disk no longer has startup file like mudkip said this obviously has the flaw that if you shutdown computer then run insert it does not work but there is no way around that without changing computercraft itself or if theres someway to make ctrl+s not work.

#22 Espen

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 12:54 PM

@Sariaz:
I'll try to explain why it won't work:
If the disk is in the drive when the computer reboots, then it will boot from the disk.
When the computer boots up bios.lua controls the boot-process.
Per default disk-booting has a higher priority than booting from the computer.
So no matter what program you have in your computer's startup file, a disk-boot will always have a higher priority.

The only way to change that is to change the bios.lua

Edit: Ninja'd by yourself.^^
It seems you understand it now. :)

#23 Sariaz

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 01:04 PM

I understand how startup works and how disks run startup instead my point was that spongy said you cant detect a disk and rename the startup in no uncertain terms so I made code that did exactly that.

This was one really big communication error wasn't it sorry for any annoyance or aggravation cause to lack of communication

Also +1 to espen for good explanation and trying to help with this whole mess.

Edited by Sariaz, 17 April 2013 - 03:53 PM.


#24 Spongy141

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 03:19 PM

^
BUT the disks startup will always override the computers startup, which I'm guessing would be your code, so it will and without doings kings way, will not work.

#25 Sariaz

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 03:50 PM

View PostSpongy141, on 17 April 2013 - 03:19 PM, said:

^
BUT the disks startup will always override the computers startup, which I'm guessing would be your code, so it will and without doings kings way, will not work.

Spongy it comes down to weather they are smart person or average person if average then they usually put disk in first i have found then reboot if they put disk in before shutting down then my code runs before the reboot and therefore no startup on disk when rebooted. This is the point im making it is possible to do what I'm saying if they put disk in before shutting down computer therefore it is possible. Also if you can do kings way you can also just hide computer then you cant force reboot anyways so its a nul point. I get it spongy that if they do it properly my code will work but when you say it is impossible to to something consider all instances.

#26 Sariaz

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 03:52 PM

@ imque hope in all the arguing and such you found a way to bypass the disk that will work for you if you didn't let us know because someone should be able to figure out something.

#27 MudkipTheEpic

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 03:57 PM

Edit: Oops derp

#28 Spongy141

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 04:01 PM

View PostSariaz, on 17 April 2013 - 03:52 PM, said:

@ imque hope in all the arguing and such you found a way to bypass the disk that will work for you if you didn't let us know because someone should be able to figure out something.
Well its obvious you haven't used computercraft that long, since in fact a disks startup will and probably always (When I say probably I mean that dan probably wont change it) start before the computers startup, so in fact your code if named startup on the computer, will do nothing to the disks startup file. Try it, if I'm wrong then I'll leave this forums forever, and I'm making such a statement because I know I am right.

#29 Dlcruz129

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 04:05 PM

There is no way to bypass disk startup without editing the rom. Period. It doesn't matter if you have extremely complex code on the computer's startup file, it will never run if the computer finds a disk startup first.

#30 Spongy141

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 04:19 PM

View PostDlcruz129, on 17 April 2013 - 04:05 PM, said:

There is no way to bypass disk startup without editing the rom. Period. It doesn't matter if you have extremely complex code on the computer's startup file, it will never run if the computer finds a disk startup first.
Thank you. My point exactly.

#31 Sariaz

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 04:20 PM

My point is not that disks don't run before computers.

Correct me if I'm wrong but if i have a start up program on a loop to do something and I insert a disk with a startup program I have to then reboot the computer before the disks startup will run, or does a program named startup on a disk automatically run just by having the disk inserted into the drive and nothing else? First before continuing figure out weather you agree that I would have to reboot to have the disk's startup file run.

Assuming you agree wouldn't it be true in the time it takes after putting in the disk to exit the disk drive gui open the computer and reboot the code running on the computer already will have renamed the disks startup file so when I then reboot the disk will not have a startup file therefore my code will run. Now do you agree with this?

Lastly I understand your point that if I first shut off the computer then put my disk in before turning back on the computer my code would not run.

It all comes down to weather or not the disk is inserted while the computer is running or not. If it is inserted while shutdown you are correct if it is inserted while computer is on I'm correct.
If you think you are correct even while computer is running when you insert the floppy I will make a video of me running my code and inserting disk while computer is running if you like to see who is right.

#32 Spongy141

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 04:31 PM

Most of the time the computer is off while you put in the disk, at least if your not stupid, so yes, if the computer is on and detecting a disk then it could rename it, but if someone sees a computer not responding, they will see that something is up, OR if there smart enough, they will bypass that by shutdown the computer first.

#33 Sariaz

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 04:38 PM

View PostSpongy141, on 17 April 2013 - 11:12 AM, said:

View PostSariaz, on 17 April 2013 - 11:00 AM, said:

View PostSpongy141, on 17 April 2013 - 10:51 AM, said:

^
Look either way your way wont work. If someone is trying to hack into your computer, theres a very low chance you have access to there disk/startup file, so like you said "Have the startup rename the disk/startup to something else" well you would need to add the code in the disk/startup... And this topic is about bypassing the disks startup..

I think he means make a startup program that will look at floppies when they are inserted an if the floppy has a startup file rename it.
Best way I can put this.
Posted Image

As you can see in the quote you said it was impossible to detect a floppy and rename startup my only point was that it is possible under certain circumstances a smart person will not let happen. Although you would be surprised by the number of people that don't do this.

#34 Imque

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 05:42 PM

In the poccess of all of this I have found:
  • A computer wil boot from the disk drive even if the disk was inserted while the computer was turned off.
  • To get a computer to boot from a disk drive you need to "force" it (Edit BIOS, Fake shutdown, etc...)
I have left my project until further support for this is added. (Cloudy..)


Spoiler


#35 Cloudy

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 07:41 PM

This is intended behaviour and isn't going to change.

#36 Espen

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 09:20 PM

View PostImque, on 17 April 2013 - 05:42 PM, said:

In the poccess of all of this I have found:
  • A computer wil boot from the disk drive even if the disk was inserted while the computer was turned off.
  • To get a computer to boot from a disk drive you need to "force" it (Edit BIOS, Fake shutdown, etc...)
I have left my project until further support for this is added. (Cloudy..)
???
Do you mean: to get a computer to boot ONLY from the disk drive?
Because just being able to boot from there is possible without any modifications.





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