23 replies to this topic

[Dlcruz129]

ZetaNeta, on 01 June 2013 - 07:24 AM, said:

If the authors want turtles be "blind" and only compare. I got a idea.
I am not quite sure if turtles should be able to compare stuff them self.
I think we should do either a comparing machine. Either do this as a "tool".
So turtles without comparing add-on will not be able to even understand the difference betwen wood and obsidian.

Nice idea!

[Spongy141]

Last I checked a turtle can already compare a block to a block in its inventory, so you don't need this.

[MudkipTheEpic]

Spongy141, on 01 June 2013 - 05:12 PM, said:

Last I checked a turtle can already compare a block to a block in its inventory, so you don't need this.

They want to make regular turtles not be able to compare, just special ones. Which I think is dumb.

[MudkipTheEpic]

ZetaNeta, on 01 June 2013 - 05:59 PM, said:

Spongy141, on 01 June 2013 - 05:12 PM, said:

Last I checked a turtle can already compare a block to a block in its inventory, so you don't need this.

I meant to remove this functionality like its sad a post after yours.

MudkipTheEpic, on 01 June 2013 - 05:35 PM, said:

They want to make regular turtles not be able to compare, just special ones. Which I think is dumb.

Well, i heard the developers what they think about turtles by reading their responses on other suggestions. I think this "may interest" them with their idea of "blind turtle".
Do you think a turtle got some kind of "analyzer" built-it? I didnt saw it on my crafting table while doing one.

Did you see a microchip when you crafted the turtle? An engine? LCD display? This is Minecraft. Creepers, zombies etc. just aren't realistic.

If comparing broke the fourth wall, they never would have added it. Think about having a wireless mining turtle without comparing. No ore detecting or anything.

Also, whats with all the nerf suggestions? Not just you, but it just seems a lot of people want nice things removed.

Edited by MudkipTheEpic, 01 June 2013 - 10:04 PM.

[Jappards]

i don`t like comparing to be removed on normal turtles, but this would also break a lot of contraptions, but what is the fourth wall?

[theoriginalbit]

ZetaNeta, on 02 June 2013 - 07:12 AM, said:

I heard that they wanted to fix the fourth wall, so i suggested.

It has to be broken before wanting to fix it, they don't add anything in if it is going to break the wall, so how would the wall have been broken. Do you have a link from a reliable source for this accusation?

ZetaNeta, on 02 June 2013 - 07:12 AM, said:

Understanding what ore it holds IS SOOoooooo.... OVERPOWERED for me.

It doesn't understand what ore it is holding. It knows there is a block in the inventory, and it knows it is the same as the one in front (or not), but it has no idea what kind of ore it is. The only thing it can know for certain is coal and that is because of the newly added functionality to turtle.refuel, that returns if an item can be used as fuel...

ZetaNeta, on 02 June 2013 - 07:12 AM, said:

With alittle of logic you may say what stacks in 16, 64... aproximetly. You may understand what is cobble by calculating the amount turtle mines and gets to this stack.

Nope, this is virtually impossible to do. Some examples that would mess up logic and why comparing IS required:

• Gravel's random chance to be flint
  
• Drop amounts of Lapis and Redstone too variable and chance of being similar
  
• Drop amounts of all ores.
  
• Those large pockets of dirt that you come across underground as well as the gravel
  
• Any mod that adds in a block

No logic can account for all of these variables + more, ergo we need comparison. We have a low level comparison, it is by no means overpowered.

[Bubba]

I would disagree with this. It would remove much of the turtle's functionality as turtles. There are many people who like to have wireless crafting turtles to serve as their "butler", and removing the compare functionality would ruin that because as of right now you can have no more than two peripherals at any one time.

[ChunLing]

If a change is going to break a bunch of existing programs, then it really has to be justified by some significant improvement in gameplay, otherwise it's just a "screw you" to everyone that's already invested a lot of effort in the mod.

I would like to make a suggestion. The list of "suggestions not to make" should be amended to include "ego trips, suggestions that have as their sole purpose making the suggester feel good about getting a suggestion accepted".

Yes, ComputerCraft is moving in the direction of being more "difficult", with more expensive recipes and consumable requirements. That doesn't mean that every suggestion to make it harder is automatically being accepted. More to the point, your value as a person does not rest on (or affect in any way) whether the ComputerCraft developers decide to accept one of "your" suggestions. If they accept a suggestion it is going to be because they feel that it would add something to the mod for a lot of people, not just you. Furthermore, no matter how many people would be pleased by something, they won't implement it if they feel it goes against their vision for the mod.

[BigSHinyToys]

Over powered is a very broad term. in a FPS snipers are "OP" from the perspective of people that get quicksniped but not to people that use them as long range weapons. a turtle by its self can only excavate but with a skilled player it can be a butler capable of a large range of tasks.

The ability to compare items is a half way solution to two problems and doesn't really solve ether. problem one turtles are OP and can do so much already why give them more power. The other is people want to do more with turtles and knowing what blocks they hold opens a wide range of possibility. comparing is to OP for some and not powerful enough for others.

I personally an in the camp of give turtles more power. I would like turtles to be able to build cities and have there own society. this is "technically" achievable with compare but is complicated with Mod blocks and having to make a educated guess in some cases.

In terms of backwards compatibility it would be a big decision to remove a feature that people are already using.

Moving the compare ability to a peripheral block would be ok but cause some problems during adaption.

In conclusion I don't think removing this functionality would be good for CC.

[Bubba]

ZetaNeta, on 02 June 2013 - 11:05 AM, said:

Yet you words seem to me like "Dont remove it, i got a farm based on that"

In fact I don't. I prefer to use Buildcraft for all my sorting needs, because for the most part pipes are slightly faster. But I'm thinking of others who do use turtles for such things.

I personally will never understand suggestions to downgrade turtles. If you think they're too powerful, it is easy enough to throw a few diamonds in lava or, better yet, write a little startup script/edit the rom in a way that limits a turtle's ability. Don't try to force your downgrades on those who use the turtle's current abilities to their full extent.

[Bubba]

ZetaNeta, on 02 June 2013 - 12:28 PM, said:

Again as i sad about ON/OFF, server gameplay and stuff, stuff, stuff. Shall i add those lines to the main post?

Yeah, you should add that to your main post. I still disagree with the notion, but perhaps others would be more inclined to side with you if you were to include that in the main post.

Quote

+ You should have understand what i mean under "Dont remove it, i got a farm based on that"

I guess not. In what way exactly am I supposed to take that other than, "The only reason you don't like this suggestion is because you have something that relies on this feature"?

Quote

"In terms of backwards compatibility" alot of mods have this problem. Why cant we? Alot of "HOWTO"s for other mods have alot of signs saying "PATCHED IN ****" or "WORKS FROM ****".
Why cant we have those?

ComputerCraft is a bit different. It takes more than just changing a few blocks to get a program working again; one has to entirely redesign, re-implement, and redeploy which takes a hell of a lot of work. Not to mention the fact that it is annoying regardless of which mod doesn't keep backwards compatibility. I definitely appreciate that Dan and Cloudy have kept things backwards compatible so far.

[Tiin57]

ZetaNeta, on 02 June 2013 - 12:28 PM, said:

Now look at you self. You think that all people want is to be high and to be accepted. *old teacher voice* NO YOU DUMB! All i wanted it some hardcore in here.
They have added fuel for turtles, that the first step in right dirrection.
Currently they are making it harder and yeah! We should post alot of "enhardening" suggestions, so devs will be able to choose what to add next, and what not to if they are going to move in this dirrection.
Fuel for turtles had a major thing "ON/OFF SWITCH". Players can play with it. But for servers that maybe a really got switch.
And you think that they are goint to implement that without this switch? NO!

Well.
1. Genetically, all human beings have an urge for acceptance and high status.
2. This feature, as ChunLing said, has been in the mod since turtles were introduced, if I recall correctly. Removing it will break no less than hundreds of turtle programs that rely on comparing.
3. An on-off switch might be a good idea, except for a very plausible scenario:
Server owner switches comparing off. (Why anyone would want to do that, I don't know. I'm going to stick to logic here, though.)
(Player: "y this turtle crashin")*20
Server owner: *facepalm* "I turned it back on."
Player: "Turned what back on?"
Server owner: *facedesk*

[Kingdaro]

I am incredibly far less inclined to install or use a mod that disallows me to do much less than it could. The ability for turtles to compare blocks against one another and within their inventory adds many more possibilities and functionality to the mod, and gives much more purpose to turtles.

Removing comparison on turtles is like removing the for statement in lua. "Well yeah we felt a lot of programs in lua were too easy to make and too overpowered, so we went ahead and made it so that everyone has to repeat their statements a million and a half times."

[Engineer]

To extend on what Kingdaro said:

We could do it, but getting it by default would be much efficienter:

local count = 1
repeat
  count = count + 1
  -- Do stuff
until count == 5

Why install a peripheral when it has very much functionality, and that should be inside CC!