Opinion on OpenComputers?
#21
Posted 20 December 2013 - 11:55 PM
Yeah, I have a clean Forge 1.6.4, OC, and the latest BuildCraft.
I crash occasionally with recipies in NEI, but that's it.
#22
Posted 21 December 2013 - 01:10 AM
Sangar, on 20 December 2013 - 04:51 PM, said:
I appreciate the offer and hope it never becomes a problem, especially not a drastic enough one to ask for a specific note! We're pretty welcoming here, so it would take quite a few people persistently causing problems before I feel this would be a necessary step.
The project looks good, and while it's not really up my alley personally, I'm excited to see a little friendly competition pushing both mods to be better than they would be otherwise!
#23
Posted 21 December 2013 - 02:56 AM
Bomb Bloke, on 19 December 2013 - 06:46 PM, said:
In the end, you have to code more, but the output becomes much better for the user.
awsmazinggenius, on 19 December 2013 - 09:28 PM, said:
just a bit of fixing CClua - lua compatibility problems, and then you have your json translator. Got it working some time ago in gh-dl, you could use the functions there too, if you're tired of fixing issues
Edited by ardera, 21 December 2013 - 03:08 AM.
#24
Posted 21 December 2013 - 04:01 AM
It does strike me, though, that a large monitor with minimum text scale can indeed run a custom font, if you want it too. I assume that's already been done.
#25
Posted 22 December 2013 - 04:56 PM
ardera, on 21 December 2013 - 02:56 AM, said:
Bomb Bloke, on 19 December 2013 - 06:46 PM, said:
Thanks for that JSON parser - +1 for you . I thought of this before, thinking it would be great for tooltips and the like, but then thought to myself (without having great knowledge of Java, or even seeing either Minecraft's or ComputerCraft's source code) that the server probably has no way of knowing where the client's cursor is. (I could be wrong on all of this ) Also, what if 2 players are accessing the same computer? And what is somebody has slow internet, so the stream of "mouse position" packets was slower to the server, making it confusing, with laggy tooltips/whatever? While it would be awesome, it probably isn't feasible.
Edited by awsmazinggenius, 22 December 2013 - 05:05 PM.
#26
Posted 22 December 2013 - 08:31 PM
Bomb Bloke, on 21 December 2013 - 04:01 AM, said:
Bottom line, you can't force programmers to do anything. It's like herding cats.
#27
Posted 22 December 2013 - 09:18 PM
#28
Posted 22 December 2013 - 09:27 PM
As an example, let's say you're a new player who recently found this mod, looking to create awesome automated contraptions using computers and turtles. Then you find that you have to learn an entire programming language, which includes but is not limited to: the difference between globals and locals, why globals are bad, the difference between dot and colon notation, how tables work and the many caveats that come with using them, how to read and write files, and so on.
Obviously to do anything you'll have to do some bit of learning, but the amount of "learning" that CC specifically promotes is pretty much the repetition of many processes that are trivial to do on their own, but build up in terms of time and effort spent in making the systems you want. It's redundant and you become annoyed more than you actually learn anything. Some examples being you need three lines of verbose code to read and write files, that 9 times out of 10, the read() function needs to be rewritten to implement a length limit among other things, the colors table doesn't have any backward references, and looping is almost always needed to find a specific connected peripheral. Some of these examples are more "valid" than others, but for getting things done in your minecraft world, reinventing the wheel shouldn't be encouraged.
And of course, there are people (many here reading this I'm sure) that actually do pick up mods like this to learn a bit of programming, and that's fine. For people who are actually curious and want to learn, they can look at the source code. People who look up how to create coroutine management systems are always pointed towards the parallel API, which is an almost perfect example of how to use coroutines. Forcing people to learn before letting them create their desired output discourages learning. It's curiosity that creates learning. As a (kind of bad) example, if a function like "fs.read(filename, mode)" were implemented, I would probably be more inclined to look behind and see what allows me to read files so easily, then continue to use this wonderful easy method. As opposed to using the method we have have now, I would learn how files are read, but I would just give up because it's annoying typing three lines of code every time.
In short, I personally believe in mods that don't "get in your way" and allow self-induced learning, rather than only giving the bare minimum and expecting the user to work low level for whatever they need. It may seem like I'm indirectly making suggestions in this post, but I know they probably won't be considered, and that's fine. CC is a nice mod, and until OpenComputers actually has less convoluted vomit-inducing recipes, CC is probably one of the best Lua development environments out there in my opinion. Even then, I feel as though OCS tries to be too much like a real computer, and goes against the policy of curiosity-induced learning I explained prior, but I suppose the only thing we can do is look toward the future and see how things turn out.
#29
Posted 22 December 2013 - 10:12 PM
#30
Posted 22 December 2013 - 11:02 PM
oeed, on 22 December 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:
#31
Posted 22 December 2013 - 11:22 PM
#32
Posted 22 December 2013 - 11:24 PM
#33
Posted 22 December 2013 - 11:30 PM
I don't know, but it's over 3 stirling engines.
I'll try HV solar right next to an MFSU later.
#34
Posted 23 December 2013 - 05:39 AM
Edited by Farrk, 23 December 2013 - 06:05 AM.
#35
Posted 24 December 2013 - 02:58 AM
Ah, now you've got me started with the silly suggestions.
Kingdaro, on 22 December 2013 - 09:27 PM, said:
I assume they don't even realise that the latter two are options, and so never look into them - without the foreknowledge that there is a lower level, it's a bit of a "mental leap" for them to make.
#36
Posted 24 December 2013 - 12:48 PM
#37
Posted 29 December 2013 - 03:58 PM
#38
Posted 31 December 2013 - 02:19 PM
robhol, on 29 December 2013 - 03:58 PM, said:
Im curious to go check them out, because the two options I wanted when I looked into the CC config file was 'harder recipes' and 'increase power use'. I didn't find them, unless its in 1.6 maybe.
I'd argue that 9 out of 10 turtle users are usign them for automated resource gathering. In that respect, turtles are THE strongest option there is. They speed up game progression a lot, and for people who don't enjoy the game when it gets to pseudo creative mode ("end game") turtles just bring that point to the game faster.
Personally im looking into opencomputers. Id happily stick with CC, but why wouldn't the author let people config the mod to be harder? Even gregtech lets you make his mod easier, IMO opencomputers is the result of CC being less tolerant of other playstyles than... gregtech. Think about that for a minute.
#39
Posted 01 January 2014 - 09:35 PM
robhol, on 29 December 2013 - 03:58 PM, said:
Agreed, but many of the suggestions aren't great. There is a reason for their rejection, but yes, there are a few gems in there.
#40
Posted 05 January 2014 - 11:19 AM
OpenComputers is more for making a program for your survival world to control everything.
OpenComputers is specifically focused towards:
Make a lot of machines, work to get your computer, make a quick program, be able to control those machines.
Computercraft is focused on:
Have fun, be free, make cool programs, show them to the world.
I myself prefer Computercraft.
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