Jump to content




We need to stop competing.


34 replies to this topic

#1 Terra1

  • Members
  • 232 posts

Posted 07 February 2018 - 03:40 PM

We need to stop competing to make servers.
We need one, universal server, with good hardware, staff, and enough mods to be fun for everyone (not CC-only) and few enough to not be laggy (not hundreds of mods)
So, I have made a compromise between all the servers that i've seen.
It would be a survival server, with FTBUtils and either the PBv2 "BetaBot" or a bunch of sponge plugins.
Here is my recommended list of mods:
ComputerCraft (obviously)
Advanced Rocketry
Mekanism
Thermal Expansion
Thermal Dynamics
Forge Multipart
RFTools
Immersive Engineering
some Project Red knockoff/clone
OpenComputers
Chisel & Bits
Applied Energistics 2
If this is created, then all the other servers (maybe not the old, continually running "zombie servers" that nobody joins.) would be shut down, and the CC community would be (at least temporarily) revived, to Mid LuaLand era levels (20+ players)

Edited by Terra1, 07 February 2018 - 04:01 PM.


#2 apemanzilla

  • Members
  • 1,421 posts

Posted 07 February 2018 - 04:13 PM

That won't work for a lot of reasons:
  • People will want different mods
  • People will want different game settings (e.g. creative/survival, pvp/pve, etc)
  • Larger servers aren't automatically better
    • It takes a lot more work to run and maintain a larger server
    • A lot of players (myself included) prefer smaller servers (you get a more tight-knit community and better experience IMO)
    • Modded servers take far more resources to run than vanilla and have problems with lag with more players
    • CC specifically doesn't scale well at all, running all computers on a single thread means they become almost unusable very quickly


#3 SquidDev

    Frickin' laser beams

  • Members
  • 1,389 posts
  • LocationDoes anyone put something serious here?

Posted 07 February 2018 - 04:25 PM

View Postapemanzilla, on 07 February 2018 - 04:13 PM, said:

People will want different mods
I think one of my biggest issues with many "ComputerCraft" servers, is they are pretty much indistinguishable any other modded server, just with ComputerCraft. Consequently you don't really end up with people using CC that much. Some of the most fun I've had on servers was on SwitchCraft and Airwaves, as the limited mod selection forced you to be creative with what you had. Obviously this is a personal choice, and some people prefer a more kitchen sink pack.

View Postapemanzilla, on 07 February 2018 - 04:13 PM, said:

CC specifically doesn't scale well at all, running all computers on a single thread means they become almost unusable very quickly
CC: Tweaked (and CCTweaks for pre-1.12 versions) has support for multi-threading computers. I can't guarantee it's stable, but I know of a couple of servers which have enabled it with much success.

#4 Terra1

  • Members
  • 232 posts

Posted 07 February 2018 - 04:26 PM

View Postapemanzilla, on 07 February 2018 - 04:13 PM, said:

That won't work for a lot of reasons:
  • People will want different mods
  • People will want different game settings (e.g. creative/survival, pvp/pve, etc)
  • Larger servers aren't automatically better
    • It takes a lot more work to run and maintain a larger server
    • A lot of players (myself included) prefer smaller servers (you get a more tight-knit community and better experience IMO)
    • Modded servers take far more resources to run than vanilla and have problems with lag with more players
    • CC specifically doesn't scale well at all, running all computers on a single thread means they become almost unusable very quickly
Do you count 20-25 players as large? I would count that as quite small.

Edited by Terra1, 07 February 2018 - 04:26 PM.


#5 apemanzilla

  • Members
  • 1,421 posts

Posted 07 February 2018 - 04:34 PM

View PostTerra1, on 07 February 2018 - 04:26 PM, said:

View Postapemanzilla, on 07 February 2018 - 04:13 PM, said:

That won't work for a lot of reasons:
  • People will want different mods
  • People will want different game settings (e.g. creative/survival, pvp/pve, etc)
  • Larger servers aren't automatically better
    • It takes a lot more work to run and maintain a larger server
    • A lot of players (myself included) prefer smaller servers (you get a more tight-knit community and better experience IMO)
    • Modded servers take far more resources to run than vanilla and have problems with lag with more players
    • CC specifically doesn't scale well at all, running all computers on a single thread means they become almost unusable very quickly
Do you count 20-25 players as large? I would count that as quite small.
Then my points about issues with large servers are even more relevant.

#6 SquidDev

    Frickin' laser beams

  • Members
  • 1,389 posts
  • LocationDoes anyone put something serious here?

Posted 07 February 2018 - 04:44 PM

View Postapemanzilla, on 07 February 2018 - 04:34 PM, said:

View PostTerra1, on 07 February 2018 - 04:26 PM, said:

Do you count 20-25 players as large? I would count that as quite small.
Then my points about issues with large servers are even more relevant.
Having spent some time trying to fix lag issues on ProjectBeta, even a small number of players can quickly grind the server to a halt. There's always the balance between allowing people to build what they want, and having a relatively sane TPS.

#7 CLNinja

  • Members
  • 190 posts

Posted 07 February 2018 - 04:46 PM

View PostTerra1, on 07 February 2018 - 04:26 PM, said:

Do you count 20-25 players as large? I would count that as quite small.
For this community that is a very good sized server.

Take Switchcraft: One of the more popular servers of the time, had no less than 5 people playing on it at any time from launch day until pretty much now (a few days) and that is significant in this community.

Edited by CLNinja, 07 February 2018 - 04:47 PM.


#8 Saldor010

  • Members
  • 463 posts
  • LocationThe United States

Posted 07 February 2018 - 07:36 PM

I've just never seen the appeal of a CC server: even with only a few people playing, the response time of CC drops dramatically until it's almost painful to use. Not to mention that people get bored of the "new and improved" CC server that comes around every month after just a few days of playing, so if you were really into the whole multiplayer concept, you won't be too happy when the player counts drop.

#9 3d6

  • Members
  • 334 posts

Posted 07 February 2018 - 07:48 PM

View PostTerra1, on 07 February 2018 - 03:40 PM, said:

We need one, universal server

View PostTerra1, on 07 February 2018 - 03:40 PM, said:

the CC community would be (at least temporarily) revived, to Mid LuaLand era levels
There already is one universal server. Just look at the CC server tracker, it's just one server with occasional others getting a player or two.

#10 CLNinja

  • Members
  • 190 posts

Posted 07 February 2018 - 07:49 PM

View Post3d6, on 07 February 2018 - 07:48 PM, said:

View PostTerra1, on 07 February 2018 - 03:40 PM, said:

We need one, universal server

View PostTerra1, on 07 February 2018 - 03:40 PM, said:

the CC community would be (at least temporarily) revived, to Mid LuaLand era levels
There already is one universal server. Just look at the CC server tracker, it's just one server with occasional others getting a player or two.

*rolls d20*
nat 20
critical hit
0hp

#11 Jummit

  • Members
  • 305 posts
  • LocationJulfander Squad Studio

Posted 07 February 2018 - 07:49 PM

View PostTerra1, on 07 February 2018 - 04:26 PM, said:

View Postapemanzilla, on 07 February 2018 - 04:13 PM, said:

That won't work for a lot of reasons:
  • People will want different mods
  • People will want different game settings (e.g. creative/survival, pvp/pve, etc)
  • Larger servers aren't automatically better
    • It takes a lot more work to run and maintain a larger server
    • A lot of players (myself included) prefer smaller servers (you get a more tight-knit community and better experience IMO)
    • Modded servers take far more resources to run than vanilla and have problems with lag with more players
    • CC specifically doesn't scale well at all, running all computers on a single thread means they become almost unusable very quickly
Do you count 20-2No. 5 players as large? I would count that as quite small.
I never saw a CC server with 20 players online at the same time. But I am quite new so...

Edited by Jummit, 07 February 2018 - 07:50 PM.


#12 Terra1

  • Members
  • 232 posts

Posted 07 February 2018 - 08:14 PM

View PostJummit, on 07 February 2018 - 07:49 PM, said:

View PostTerra1, on 07 February 2018 - 04:26 PM, said:

View Postapemanzilla, on 07 February 2018 - 04:13 PM, said:

That won't work for a lot of reasons:
  • People will want different mods
  • People will want different game settings (e.g. creative/survival, pvp/pve, etc)
  • Larger servers aren't automatically better
    • It takes a lot more work to run and maintain a larger server
    • A lot of players (myself included) prefer smaller servers (you get a more tight-knit community and better experience IMO)
    • Modded servers take far more resources to run than vanilla and have problems with lag with more players
    • CC specifically doesn't scale well at all, running all computers on a single thread means they become almost unusable very quickly
Do you count 20-2No. 5 players as large? I would count that as quite small.
I never saw a CC server with 20 players online at the same time. But I am quite new so...
2014-late 2015 CC servers regularly had 20+ players.

#13 osmarks

  • Members
  • 20 posts

Posted 07 February 2018 - 08:26 PM

Note: I'm gollark ingame and play regularly on Project Beta 2, though I've never played on Switchcraft.

Merging Switchcraft and Project Beta 2 (according to the tracker thing - http://track.computercraft.net/ - these are the most popular servers) could not work. The modlist of PB2 is about 70 mods long, and nearly all of them are used by various people. Bases are gigantic things with multiple levels packed with machinery. This does result in severe TPS issues, even with only 3 groups in what I'd consider "endgame". This is because it's basically a kitchen sink pack advertised as a bit CC-focused. Your proposed modlist would get rid of much of the interesting stuff - Botania, Psi, Deep Resonance, and Tinkers' Construct, plus presumably more.

Switchcraft, though, is very busy, but as it relies on turtles and computers for automation, tech levels are much lower. But your modlist for *that* would be a massive change, adding things to simplify mining, automation and other tasks. This would probably result in less of an economy due to resources increasing to post-scarcity levels, more lag, and - by the standards of CC automaters - less interesting stuff.

Basically, the middle ground between SC and PB2 would be pretty boring for most people, I think.

#14 Incinirate

  • Members
  • 216 posts
  • LocationDanktown, Memeland

Posted 07 February 2018 - 08:29 PM

View PostJummit, on 07 February 2018 - 07:49 PM, said:

View PostTerra1, on 07 February 2018 - 04:26 PM, said:

View Postapemanzilla, on 07 February 2018 - 04:13 PM, said:

That won't work for a lot of reasons:
  • People will want different mods
  • People will want different game settings (e.g. creative/survival, pvp/pve, etc)
  • Larger servers aren't automatically better
    • It takes a lot more work to run and maintain a larger server
    • A lot of players (myself included) prefer smaller servers (you get a more tight-knit community and better experience IMO)
    • Modded servers take far more resources to run than vanilla and have problems with lag with more players
    • CC specifically doesn't scale well at all, running all computers on a single thread means they become almost unusable very quickly
Do you count 20-2No. 5 players as large? I would count that as quite small.
I never saw a CC server with 20 players online at the same time. But I am quite new so...

Switchcraft has 20 players atm
Posted Image

Edit: 21 ;)
Posted Image

Edited by Incinirate, 07 February 2018 - 08:33 PM.


#15 Saldor010

  • Members
  • 463 posts
  • LocationThe United States

Posted 07 February 2018 - 08:42 PM

Just a reminder: Switchcraft is still only four days old. Let me know what the player count is in a few weeks.

#16 CLNinja

  • Members
  • 190 posts

Posted 07 February 2018 - 08:58 PM

Switchcraft has some decently well known players, including popular server owners, such as:

valithor2 from LuaLand/CommunityCraft
Cdel from LuaLand/Kremeland
Lur from Lurcraft
BTC from the original Switchcraft (Under new ownership)
Lemmmy from NuclearStorm

Switchcraft also has some popular developers on their server:

CrazedProgrammer Surface, Strafe, CC Build Server, etc
3d6 original creator of Krist
SquidDev Creator of CCTweaks/CC:Tweaked/Plethora

Needless to say, Switchcraft has a decent and well known playerbase that I don't think they'll be losing.

#17 Saldor010

  • Members
  • 463 posts
  • LocationThe United States

Posted 07 February 2018 - 09:04 PM

View PostCLNinja, on 07 February 2018 - 08:58 PM, said:

Switchcraft has some decently well known players, including popular server owners, such as:
-snip-
Needless to say, Switchcraft has a decent and well known playerbase that I don't think they'll be losing.

Er, that doesn't really mean anything, especially the server owner list, since all of those servers are dead. Just because these are reputable members, doesn't mean they're immune to getting tired of a particular server. Again, tell me the player count in a few weeks.

#18 Gorzoid

  • Members
  • 44 posts

Posted 09 February 2018 - 12:10 AM

Situation: There are 14 competing servers.
14?! Ridiculous! We need to develop one universal server that covers everyone's use cases.
Situation: There are 15 competing servers.

#19 Luca_S

  • Members
  • 383 posts
  • LocationGermany

Posted 09 February 2018 - 07:59 AM

View PostGorzoid, on 09 February 2018 - 12:10 AM, said:

Situation: There are 14 competing servers.
14?! Ridiculous! We need to develop one universal server that covers everyone's use cases.
Situation: There are 15 competing servers.

Hmm, I have the feeling this is stolen from somewhere, but I don't quite remember where.

#20 Terra1

  • Members
  • 232 posts

Posted 10 February 2018 - 10:10 AM

View Postosmarks, on 07 February 2018 - 08:26 PM, said:

Note: I'm gollark ingame and play regularly on Project Beta 2, though I've never played on Switchcraft.

Merging Switchcraft and Project Beta 2 (according to the tracker thing - http://track.computercraft.net/ - these are the most popular servers) could not work. The modlist of PB2 is about 70 mods long, and nearly all of them are used by various people. Bases are gigantic things with multiple levels packed with machinery. This does result in severe TPS issues, even with only 3 groups in what I'd consider "endgame". This is because it's basically a kitchen sink pack advertised as a bit CC-focused. Your proposed modlist would get rid of much of the interesting stuff - Botania, Psi, Deep Resonance, and Tinkers' Construct, plus presumably more.

Switchcraft, though, is very busy, but as it relies on turtles and computers for automation, tech levels are much lower. But your modlist for *that* would be a massive change, adding things to simplify mining, automation and other tasks. This would probably result in less of an economy due to resources increasing to post-scarcity levels, more lag, and - by the standards of CC automaters - less interesting stuff.

Basically, the middle ground between SC and PB2 would be pretty boring for most people, I think.
Botania is incredibly boring. I've never seen Psi used for anything but messing with people, and i've never even seen Tinker's Construct used for anything whatsoever.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users