24 replies to this topic

[Gavjenks]

It would be fantastic if there were a way to send signals on the other wireless network (not rednet, but the one with 5000 frequencies from chickenbone's wireless mod that comes with tekkit). Or if not sending or receiving signals directly, then something like being able to change the transmission or reception frequency of transmitters or receivers directly next to the computer.

I'm pretty sure that the "wireless frequencies" are nothing more than data values for those block types.

Not possible currently since frequencies can only be changed by GUI, not by redstone, etc.

This is a suggestion for a built in hook in the main computer client, not a peripheral device.

[Cloudy]

Nah - we already have our own wireless communication standard. I don't get what this would achieve.

[Gavjenks]

Several things:
1) The tekkit wireless mod is quite popular and already exists built in to a wide variety of installations. Hooking it to computercraft would increase awesome hacking potential by being able to test scan frequencies, etc.
2) That mod has other cool stuff CC doesn't have regarding wireless. Like jammers and tracking devices and so forth, that simply being able to change freqs with a computer would allow CC to tie into, improving wireless functionality.
3) It has infinite range, which is far more fun and useful than building a slow and annoying chain of 50 computers across the land. Infinite range is not overpowered, though, because you're restricted to true/false booleans on every channel with THAT wireless system, so to send strings, for instance, you'd have to make an ASCII coder and decoder first and send it in pulses. So rednet would still have plenty of uses for anything with complex info that didn't need to tie into the other wireless.

[Cloudy]

Gavjenks, on 11 August 2012 - 05:37 PM, said:

Several things:
1) The tekkit wireless mod is quite popular and already exists built in to a wide variety of installations. Hooking it to computercraft would increase awesome hacking potential by being able to test scan frequencies, etc.

The tekkit wireless mod is not by tekkit. It is by ChickenBones.

Gavjenks, on 11 August 2012 - 05:37 PM, said:

2) That mod has other cool stuff CC doesn't have regarding wireless. Like jammers and tracking devices and so forth, that simply being able to change freqs with a computer would allow CC to tie into, improving wireless functionality.

It would only allow CC to transmit redstone wirelessly. That can be achieved by having one next to a computer.

Gavjenks, on 11 August 2012 - 05:37 PM, said:

3) It has infinite range, which is far more fun and useful than building a slow and annoying chain of 50 computers across the land. Infinite range is not overpowered, though, because you're restricted to true/false booleans on every channel with THAT wireless system, so to send strings, for instance, you'd have to make an ASCII coder and decoder first and send it in pulses. So rednet would still have plenty of uses for anything with complex info that didn't need to tie into the other wireless.

It is also only redstone. The only thing you could transfer would be redstone signals, not anything better than that. In CC 1.41, wireless range is increased if a transmitter is at the world height, to a maximum of 381 blocks in either direction. Plus, you could make the range close to unlimited if you change the config file.

[Tiin57]

I have noticed that Cloudy is a staunch defender of CC. I wonder why? />

[Gavjenks]

Yes, I understand that you can have a wireless transmitter or receiver next to a computer. The request was for being able to change the frequency of the one next to the computer.

There's nothing wrong with rednet. It's just that it would be a very simple thing to do (literally just a rom program like >>freq [left] [1200]) that checks if that mod is installed, then checks if it is a transmitter or receiver, and if so changes the data value. Like 4 lines of code.

And that would allow so much awesome pvp strategy and value in being able to scan various frequencies, or being able to have the computer listen on 16 frequencies at once (with bundled cable) for 10 minutes and record any hits, then move on to the next 16, and give you an automatic log, etc.

So many people use chickenbones' other wireless system already (in and out of tekkit), and it's such an easy addition, that would add a large amount of gameplay value, that I find it a reasonable and worthwhile suggestion. It doesn't even have to involve deciphering the other mod's code. It could just read straight from chickenbones' config file to find out whatever id values he is using on that server for those two blocks.

[Lyqyd]

Gavjenks, on 12 August 2012 - 05:11 AM, said:

So many people use chickenbones' other wireless system already (in and out of tekkit), and it's such an easy addition, that would add a large amount of gameplay value, that I find it a reasonable and worthwhile suggestion. It doesn't even have to involve deciphering the other mod's code. It could just read straight from chickenbones' config file to find out whatever id values he is using on that server for those two blocks.

If it's so easy, why haven't you made the peripheral?

[BigSHinyToys]

This is the start of a very slippery slope. If this was added people would start making requests for other "Easy" things like Why cant CC change the coordinates in ICBM mod why can CC change a sorters order. Why can CC magically control everything.

Yes It would be cool as hell to use CC to pinpoint you nemesis and shower the in missiles Yes it would be cool to create wireless interference with other players Builds Yes it would be cool to control every thing from one CC computer.BUT It will never happen as CC is Independent of other mods. If you have the skills to do this then by all means go ahead and make your own peripheral you might find out how "Easy" working with java is. Also Cloudy is a developer of this mod he has said no so It wont be added into CC leaving only a peripheral as a method of including it.
[EDIT]
Xfel makes a good point bellow V
[/EDIT]

[Xfel]

ChickenBones has posted some addons for WR on the page as well. Maybe you should ask him to write a peripheral addon (which would be much easier) and not the CC devs to add base support.

[Mendax]

It's easy to do an infinite wireless (with frequencies) transmitter/receiver. You need 1 black, 1 white and one red insulated cable, 3 bundled cables and 3 transmitters/receivers. Set the transmitters 1 frequency apart and use rednet.send or rednet.receive (Warning: Must use same 3 frequencies for transmitter/receiver)

[Gavjenks]

Lyqyd, on 12 August 2012 - 05:29 AM, said:

Gavjenks, on 12 August 2012 - 05:11 AM, said:

So many people use chickenbones' other wireless system already (in and out of tekkit), and it's such an easy addition, that would add a large amount of gameplay value, that I find it a reasonable and worthwhile suggestion. It doesn't even have to involve deciphering the other mod's code. It could just read straight from chickenbones' config file to find out whatever id values he is using on that server for those two blocks.

If it's so easy, why haven't you made the peripheral?

It's not appropriate for a peripheral. This is clearly the sort of thing that could and should be a basic rom program within the main computer block, since the peripheral physical device already exists and there is no reason to add more external junk in CC to make things needlessly complicated.

Things like sensors make sense to have as peripherals, like in real life. Things that would be the equivalent of firmware, like this, don't.

Quote

ChickenBones has posted some addons for WR on the page as well. Maybe you should ask him to write a peripheral addon (which would be much easier) and not the CC devs to add base support.

I did ask him. And it's not easier than 4-6 lines of code. Very few things in plugins are as simple as this. An addon, even in the most modular and well organized system, would be a whole extra class at the least.

My suuggestion to him was actually to make it so that redstone pulses into the blocks from the sides (currently used for nothing) could increment or decrement the frequency by one, respectively. Which would be easier than an addon, and isn't specific to computercraft, even. And that would be great, but:
1) Still more complex than doing it on this side of things and
2) It would bring less publicity to ComputerCraft that way

Quote

This is the start of a very slippery slope. If this was added people would start making requests for other "Easy" things like Why cant CC change the coordinates in ICBM mod why can CC change a sorters order. Why can CC magically control everything.

The ICBM one, why not? It's pretty safe to say that one is not nearly as popular, but still, seems a reasonable request. The sorter thing, no. That's a whooole different ballpark. coming up with a way to interface to work with some other dude's proprietary, custom GUI and multi-part, sequential inventory is dozens of times more work.

The request in this thread is for a single command to change a single data value (standard value on all blocks, with existing convenient hook in bukkit). I've written a lot of code for plugins that manipulate the world (e.g. VoxelSniper brushes), and this is as simple as (after checking if the mod is installed, also easy), "getBlockAt(blah coordinates left of the computer or whatever CC already uses for modems and redstone etc.).setData(new frequency). That's it. Don't even have to decode the frequency into something meaningful. It is an unencoded, unencrypted, unobfuscated data value, like wool color.

If half a dozen other mods came along and people asked them to be integreated too, so what? If they are equally as simple as changing one ID or data value with one command, then that seems like a GREAT decision for the CC devs. Minutes' worth of work, a guarantee of compatibility and stability (its a core bukkit hook used for everything), and easy, cheap popularity brought to ComputerCraft for being more awesome. I'd love to slide down that slope if I were the creator of this.

[Cruor]

If you have acces to a redpower computer, you can use a very simple program to "redirect" bundled input and set the freq of transmitter/reciever with that /> For these who dont know, WR-CBE can be used with redpower ribbon cables.

Atleast, this is the closest current programable choice you got. And afaik tekkit got all of RP2.

[FuzzyPurp]

If someone could make it, make it.

[Cloudy]

Gavjenks, on 13 August 2012 - 06:07 AM, said:

Lyqyd, on 12 August 2012 - 05:29 AM, said:

Gavjenks, on 12 August 2012 - 05:11 AM, said:

So many people use chickenbones' other wireless system already (in and out of tekkit), and it's such an easy addition, that would add a large amount of gameplay value, that I find it a reasonable and worthwhile suggestion. It doesn't even have to involve deciphering the other mod's code. It could just read straight from chickenbones' config file to find out whatever id values he is using on that server for those two blocks.

If it's so easy, why haven't you made the peripheral?

It's not appropriate for a peripheral. This is clearly the sort of thing that could and should be a basic rom program within the main computer block, since the peripheral physical device already exists and there is no reason to add more external junk in CC to make things needlessly complicated.

Things like sensors make sense to have as peripherals, like in real life. Things that would be the equivalent of firmware, like this, don't.

Quote

ChickenBones has posted some addons for WR on the page as well. Maybe you should ask him to write a peripheral addon (which would be much easier) and not the CC devs to add base support.

I did ask him. And it's not easier than 4-6 lines of code. Very few things in plugins are as simple as this. An addon, even in the most modular and well organized system, would be a whole extra class at the least.

My suuggestion to him was actually to make it so that redstone pulses into the blocks from the sides (currently used for nothing) could increment or decrement the frequency by one, respectively. Which would be easier than an addon, and isn't specific to computercraft, even. And that would be great, but:
1) Still more complex than doing it on this side of things and
2) It would bring less publicity to ComputerCraft that way

Quote

This is the start of a very slippery slope. If this was added people would start making requests for other "Easy" things like Why cant CC change the coordinates in ICBM mod why can CC change a sorters order. Why can CC magically control everything.

The ICBM one, why not? It's pretty safe to say that one is not nearly as popular, but still, seems a reasonable request. The sorter thing, no. That's a whooole different ballpark. coming up with a way to interface to work with some other dude's proprietary, custom GUI and multi-part, sequential inventory is dozens of times more work.

The request in this thread is for a single command to change a single data value (standard value on all blocks, with existing convenient hook in bukkit). I've written a lot of code for plugins that manipulate the world (e.g. VoxelSniper brushes), and this is as simple as (after checking if the mod is installed, also easy), "getBlockAt(blah coordinates left of the computer or whatever CC already uses for modems and redstone etc.).setData(new frequency). That's it. Don't even have to decode the frequency into something meaningful. It is an unencoded, unencrypted, unobfuscated data value, like wool color.

If half a dozen other mods came along and people asked them to be integreated too, so what? If they are equally as simple as changing one ID or data value with one command, then that seems like a GREAT decision for the CC devs. Minutes' worth of work, a guarantee of compatibility and stability (its a core bukkit hook used for everything), and easy, cheap popularity brought to ComputerCraft for being more awesome. I'd love to slide down that slope if I were the creator of this.

I don't understand why you keep referring to bukkit? This isn't a bukkit plugin. As such any "bukkit hooks" you refer to really do not apply to us.

I am not saying it would be difficult to support - because WRCBE is open source, so it won't. I'm just stating that we already have our own method of wireless communication - so communicating with another one by default would be confusing for users at best.

People are free to create peripherals to interface with them - we know the mods' vision and restrictions won't be for all, which is why we allow devs to create addons. If someone cared enough it would he a 5 minute job for them to create it.

I will speak to Dan to get his opinions, if he thinks it is worthwhile then I'll do it - but I doubt it will happen.

[ETHANATOR360]

all you have to do is hookup a bundeled cable to the computer output all 16 wire colors from the cable, attach the transmitters to the coloer wires setup different frequencys for them all and rednet.send away (this method makes it hard form the receiver)

[Cranium]

ETHANATOR360, on 14 August 2012 - 01:42 PM, said:

all you have to do is hookup a bundeled cable to the computer output all 16 wire colors from the cable, attach the transmitters to the coloer wires setup different frequencys for them all and rednet.send away (this method makes it hard form the receiver)

You could simply increase the number of wireless frequencies by adding the same thing to each side of the computer. I have used this method many times with great success.

[Gavjenks]

ETHANATOR360, on 14 August 2012 - 01:42 PM, said:

all you have to do is hookup a bundeled cable to the computer output all 16 wire colors from the cable, attach the transmitters to the coloer wires setup different frequencys for them all and rednet.send away (this method makes it hard form the receiver)

No I know, I have done that, too. But that does not allow you to do things like automatically scanning frequencies (there are 5000 of them, not 16), or sending scrambling bursts to sets of 16 at once that rapidly change every tick, or other competitive wireless aggressive moves in SMP that would be fun.

The goal here is not to simply interact wirelessly with computercraft, which you can obviously already do with rednet. The goal is to increase gameplay value by being able to interact with other people's similarly (or more) popular wireless setups that do not involve computers and already exist.

But yeah, he said was already considering bringing it up with the other developer, so I am happy. That's all I can ask.

[BigSHinyToys]

This was a post but you have now have a definite answer bellow so ignore this.

[Cloudy]

We are looking into the possibility. We want to work with the author to add the ability into his mod to interact with computers.

[Cranium]

It would be nice, and would actually expand so much upon what's already available through bundled cables in RedPower.