47 replies to this topic

[Pharap]

Cloudy, on 13 August 2012 - 01:05 AM, said:

Which is incredibly unlikely, and you're just clutching at straws.

Either way, I still think it's a rather awkward way to do something that should be simpler.
I think I'll just build my house in the sky in future, it seems like the best solution.

[Cloudy]

You can make things as simple or complex as you like. A turtle could be used as a GPS host or bouncer without having to place a computer easily enough. Mining turtle would be able to ensure the sky above not blocked by digging through anything in its way.

[Pharap]

Cloudy, on 13 August 2012 - 01:23 AM, said:

You can make things as simple or complex as you like. A turtle could be used as a GPS host or bouncer without having to place a computer easily enough. Mining turtle would be able to ensure the sky above not blocked by digging through anything in its way.

I'm settled on it now, I'm going to build a house in the sky. A sky fort.

[Gavjenks]

Yes sure, 381 is more useful than 64, but that doesn't make it terribly useful. Massive hassle to put satellites up there. Especially considering in survival, people routinely make bases 2-3000 blocks apart. Gotta set up 10 satellites to link up just 2 bases? ...

Just not worth it at that point for most things. And considering that you can run linux for a cost of 7 stone, a piece of glass, and redstone... it is vastly out of the realm of what other things in this mod cost, comparatively.

I see no reason to not have it be triple what it is now normally, as well as virtually infinite laser line of sight (which aside from convenience would allow cool tripwire systems and a major role for GPS in guiding where your turtles and servers aim at and whatnot)

[Cloudy]

The default range is not increasing - and due to the mechanics of minecraft Line of Sight modems wouldn't be too pheasible either due to chunk unloads.

I will speak to dan regardless, but I very much doubt it will be a yes.

[Micha]

I don't understand why Turtles don't know their world position. Just simply turtle.x, turtle.y, turtle.z available to lua. Am I missing something? What is the story behind this decision?

[KaoS]

lol watch out, I learned recently that bumping threads is a hazardous and stupid endeavour (no offence, I'm talking about me) Dan200 said that it was too easy, it's like cheating.... The GPS system is a nightmarish one when it comes to math alone so I doubt you will persuade him to change it now. It was nigh impossible before he developed a full system to work it out

[Micha]

Thanks for your reply. Just for the record: I'm not trying to change anyone's mind. I've seen the GPS script; It actually does the same thing as real GPS. Super-sweet! Increasing the wireless rednet distance makes GPS very useful (thank god I'm a server admin). Just trying to figure out why certain decisions were made. Thanks again />

[Cranium]

So on the subject on GPS, why doesn't the GPS actually get the world x,y,z coordinates? I have never seen an explanation that explains it in terms I can understand.

[D3matt]

craniumkid22, on 07 September 2012 - 07:00 PM, said:

So on the subject on GPS, why doesn't the GPS actually get the world x,y,z coordinates? I have never seen an explanation that explains it in terms I can understand.

The same reason turtles don't. Computers and turtles don't know where they are, so neither does the GPS program unless you tell it where it is.

[Cranium]

So what you are saying, is that you should still use the satellites, but have it transmit it's "true" location?
Seems like it's just an extra step. What do you mean by it doesn't know where it is? Can't that be coded in to check the x,y, and z coordinates when they're placed? Sorry if it sounds stupid, but I just don't get the mod coding THAT well, just thinking in terms that I understand.

[Cloudy]

Of course the turtles know where they are in code - but think about it from within the game world. Consider that you're a turtle - you've just been placed down in the world. How would you know where you are without any frame of reference?

[Cranium]

Cloudy, on 07 September 2012 - 07:29 PM, said:

Of course the turtles know where they are in code - but think about it from within the game world. Consider that you're a turtle - you've just been placed down in the world. How would you know where you are without any frame of reference?

I guess that makes sense.... I just wish it would actually use the world coordinates without me using the GPS... Oh well, more work for me. />

[Pharap]

Someone really needs to design a triangulation API to replace the GPS one. The GPS system just doesn't work for how most people want it.
I've got a triangulation system, but it's only 2D at the moment, I'm going to see if I can get some of the people in gamedev to help with it since my mathematical skill is somewhat lacking. Otherwise hopefully Ironstaunch industries can help.
Regardless I strongly believe a triangulation system would be much better than GPS, and should anyone be able to create one and feels generous to do so, I think the whole CC community would benefit.

[Cloudy]

[quote name='Pharap' timestamp='1347056805' post='30504']
Someone really needs to design a triangulation API to replace the GPS one. The GPS system just doesn't work for how most people want it.
I've got a triangulation system, but it's only 2D at the moment, I'm going to see if I can get some of the people in gamedev to help with it since my mathematical skill is somewhat lacking. Otherwise hopefully Ironstaunch industries can help.
Regardless I strongly believe a triangulation system would be much better than GPS, and should anyone be able to create one and feels generous to do so, I think the whole CC community would benefit.
[/quote]

Wikipedia:
[quote name='Wikipedia]In trigonometry and geometry' date=' triangulation is the process of determining the location of a point by measuring angles to it from known points at either end of a fixed baseline, rather than measuring distances to the point directly (trilateration).[/quote']

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there is any way to work out the angle from just a distance? That is why trilateration is used in the first place.

[Pharap]

Cloudy, on 07 September 2012 - 10:35 PM, said:

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there is any way to work out the angle from just a distance? That is why trilateration is used in the first place.

It can be done providing you set up computers at fixed points, tell them their co-ordinates, thus giving you all points but the one you are trying to figure out on top of all the relevant distances. From there you can figure out the other angles and thus eventually pin-point the computer you are trying to locate.

With the one I've got, the system currently requires the same user input that the GPS system uses, so there's nothing inherently different from the user side of things compared to the current GPS system, the main difference is mostly code-side. It's more exact but still flawed because it only does 2D co-ordinates, and I'm not releasing it until I get it doing 3D co-ords.

The point is that it can be done, there are maths wizards out there capable of such a feat, whether one is kind enough to help the community with this undertaking is entirely up to chance and the will of the community.

[immibis]

Pharap, on 07 September 2012 - 11:02 PM, said:

Cloudy, on 07 September 2012 - 10:35 PM, said:

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there is any way to work out the angle from just a distance? That is why trilateration is used in the first place.

It can be done providing you set up computers at fixed points, tell them their co-ordinates, thus giving you all points but the one you are trying to figure out on top of all the relevant distances. From there you can figure out the other angles and thus eventually pin-point the computer you are trying to locate.

With the one I've got, the system currently requires the same user input that the GPS system uses, so there's nothing inherently different from the user side of things compared to the current GPS system, the main difference is mostly code-side. It's more exact but still flawed because it only does 2D co-ordinates, and I'm not releasing it until I get it doing 3D co-ords.

The point is that it can be done, there are maths wizards out there capable of such a feat, whether one is kind enough to help the community with this undertaking is entirely up to chance and the will of the community.

In other words it's exactly like the existing GPS but written from scratch? (And that's trilateration not triangulation)

[PixelToast]

[quote name='Gavjenks' timestamp='1344837466' post='25638']
Yes sure, 381 is more useful than 64, but that doesn't make it terribly useful. Massive hassle to put satellites up there. Especially considering in survival, people routinely make bases 2-3000 blocks apart. Gotta set up 10 satellites to link up just 2 bases? ...
[/quote]
first of all, the only hassle of making satelites is programming a turtle and letting it go
2-3000 blocks is a long way, it took me 2 minecraft days to walk 2.3 km, i dont think anyones going to build anything that far away conidering they would have to walk far to trade with someone
[quote name='Cloudy' timestamp='1347057342' post='30506']
Wikipedia:
[quote name='Wikipedia]In trigonometry and geometry' date=' triangulation is the process of determining the location of a point by measuring angles to it from known points at either end of a fixed baseline, rather than measuring distances to the point directly (trilateration).[/quote']

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there is any way to work out the angle from just a distance? That is why trilateration is used in the first place.
[/quote]
triateration is used because there can be multiple hosts and because with triangulation the hosts have to get their own realative positions to calculate angles making it much much more complicated

[Cookiebal]

If wireless redstone and redpower are installed, you could always try to use bundled cables and wireless receivers/transmitters to connect two really far away computers.

[matejdro]

High sky range is useful, but only if you are doing something at the surface. For example if you have turtle mining near bedrock, that is more than 200 blocks just for height difference, leaving again very small range for actual X/Z difference.

Also I'm also unable to found more in-depth info on how range changes with height, but I assume that if one computer is at bedrock and one at sky limit, it would not be using maximum range?

Cookiebal, on 11 September 2012 - 04:17 PM, said:

If wireless redstone and redpower are installed, you could always try to use bundled cables and wireless receivers/transmitters to connect two really far away computers.

AFAIK Wireless redstone does not support bundled cables, so your best bet is to turn redstone on/off at fast rate. And maximum possible rate with that would still be 20bps, which is not really useful for any longer transmission except for just "pings" or short commands.



I think current modems are fine, since they are cheap anyway. But it would be cool to have some sort of high-range equipment that would be more expensive alternative to modems.

Changing configs is cheating option. I might as well go into creative and spawn myself anything.