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small change to the recipe


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#1 finaltransmit

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 12:30 PM

I know the recipe is a difficult topic and I fully agree that there should never be an expensive multistage crafting process for computers like there is in ftb mods. Though only requiring a single piece of redstone to build a computer capable of emulating arbitrary redstone circuits seems ridiculously cheap.

So what I'm proposing is a very small change: Replacing the redstone dust in the computer recipe with a redstone block.

It wouldn't make computers any harder to get since redstone ore drops many pieces of dust, but it would make the recipe feel a lot more realistic since with a block of redstone you can at least build a small circuit.

#2 FuzzyLitchi

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 06:15 PM

I think the point of the redstone is just to make sure that the player has to get that far in the game, but i don't think dan200 had game balance as the main focus of this mod.

#3 finaltransmit

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 08:20 AM

Yes, but the recipe doesn't need balancing because computers are overpowered. After all they are just advanced redstone. It needs balancing because the recipe is so unrealistically cheap it almost feels like you're cheating when you are using it...

#4 FuzzyLitchi

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 10:50 PM

I don't think 8 more pieces of redstone will fix that.

#5 finaltransmit

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 09:00 AM

I think it will make a significant difference in terms of realism. You can imagine being able to make a computer out of a cubic meter of redstone but you can't imagine that with one piece. It's like me handing you a wire and asking you to make something vs me handing you a whole box of electronics

#6 FuzzyLitchi

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Posted 06 April 2017 - 11:07 AM

If you want realism, i don't think minecraft is the correct place to look.

#7 finaltransmit

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 08:33 AM

I'm not talking about being realistic to the real world, I'm talking about being realistic or consistent to the fantasy world of Minecraft. While Minecraft is not realistic to the real world, it makes sense in its own rules. All the crafting recipes make sense and are realistic in the ruleset of minecraft. e.g. An Enderchest requires an eye of ender since endermen can teleport and you want to teleport items. Making a cpu out of one piece of redstone makes no sense neither in the real world nor in Minecraft.

#8 Jummit

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 10:44 AM

I think a comparator would do it. You have to go to the nether for it, and thats much more difficult than just redstone.

#9 H4X0RZ

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Posted 07 May 2017 - 09:06 AM

The cable comparison is wrong though. Sure, you can't build a computer with just a cable, but that doesn't mean that one Redstone dust could only be used like one cable, hypothetically. You could divide up the dust and turn it into a lot of small "wires".

Minecraft itself isn't realistic; Why should one piece of Redstone dust only be able to transmit power, but either nine pieces or one piece on a stick magically produce infinite energy.

You were directly comparing Minecraft to the real world but then said that you only want mods to only be realistic to Minecraft, which makes no sense either. Minecraft can't be realistic without having a "role model", which has to be real life, and Minecraft sure isn't modeled after real life.

If we are at it you could also propose physics for turtles because it makes no sense for them to be able to fly. But then again, iron blocks can too.

No "realism" for you, IMO.

Edited by H4X0RZ, 07 May 2017 - 09:06 AM.


#10 finaltransmit

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Posted 27 May 2017 - 10:30 AM

@H4X0RZ
No that is exactly what I don't want. I don't want Minecraft to be realistic to the real world. In Minecraft blocks can fly and that's ok. The cable comparison was just a metaphor. It's not about making sense according to the laws of physics or even logic, it's about what the player expects how something works.

If something can teleport, the player expects it to have something end-related in it. If something is used for circuitry, it is expected to have redstone in it. And if you have a computer, it's expected to have lots of redstone in it. It's as simple as that.

@Jummit
Yea a Comparator could also work

Edited by Bomb Bloke, 28 May 2017 - 01:49 AM.


#11 Jummit

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Posted 31 May 2017 - 06:45 AM

View Postfinaltransmit, on 27 May 2017 - 10:30 AM, said:

@Jummit
Yea a Comparator could also work
I knew someone would say this. Thank you!

Edited by Jummit, 31 May 2017 - 06:45 AM.


#12 TheRockettek

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Posted 31 May 2017 - 02:25 PM

i mean you could always get a mod such as MineTweaker (or any other mod that lets you change recipes) to change the recipe for yourself or make your own cc server with the recipe change on it

#13 H4X0RZ

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Posted 31 May 2017 - 06:52 PM

I'm against comparators though. I dislike the idea that you need access to the nether just for a computer.

#14 Jummit

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 12:52 PM

The topic is about making the computer recipe harder, so what is wrong with the comparator? I think it is the best way to make the recipe harder...

#15 H4X0RZ

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 06:49 PM

Adding the nether to the equation is just dumb though. Why involve the nether in a "normal" tech mod? You don't use wood for building stone houses either.

Edited by H4X0RZ, 01 June 2017 - 06:49 PM.


#16 Jummit

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 07:05 PM

I dont get it. You only need an advanced redstone circuit part for a computer, why not involve the nether? I also think the computer recipe is very cheap, 8 more redstone dust cannot do it and quartz is simply a harder recipe. You can use a pice of redstone for a non-advanced computer though. But realy, whats wrong with the nether :( ?

#17 Purple

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 01:08 PM

It's about balancing the game so that it's fun in ways that your player base wants it to be.

All games are fundamentally about challenge. But challenge comes from difficulty. But difficulty comes in many flavors and you want to get the right one.

In mods like say Modular Powersuits or Industrial Craft the challenge comes from having to grind up all the resources to assemble your cool stuff. It's about slowly building up your industrial base and assembling a factory to harvest and process ever more resources. So up to a point making things in such mods more costly serves the purpose of adding more challenge and making them more fun.*

In CC the fun comes from the programming. It's all about opening a computer and doing fantastic things with them. So you want to make sure players can get to it as quickly as possible and than have as much breadth as possible in the actual programming so that he is challenged by the opportunities the mod presents him. Making things in this mod more expensive would literally be counterproductive to that job.

That's why the best programing IDE's are not something you have to manually compile from odd code you find on github but plug and play solutions like Eclipse or Visual studio.


* Caveat being that if you overdo it the challenge turns into grinding and that is NOT fun.

Edited by Purple, 12 December 2017 - 01:09 PM.


#18 Stekeblad

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 07:47 AM

View PostH4X0RZ, on 31 May 2017 - 06:52 PM, said:

I'm against comparators though. I dislike the idea that you need access to the nether just for a computer.
Agree. I like the current recipie.

But, then talking about alternatives to redstone dust, a redstone repeater has the same redstone cost as comparator but does not require you to go to the nether.

#19 Lupus590

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 11:24 AM

Computercraft is more about the programming as the difficult part of the mod, I belive that CC was and still is designed to be simple so that it fosters a learning enviroment.

OpenComputers aims for a more realistic crafting system, getting the resources is difficult, programming is different but not more difficult than CC (unless you get into the virtual hardware limits).

Personally I like this distinction between the two mods, I don't want CC's crafting to change.

#20 Jummit

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 05:46 PM

Maybe add a harder recipe in the hard mode? But it's just a very small detail which isn't important. I would like it though.





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